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Interview with Pilar López, sister of La Argentinita, by Manuel Herrera Rodas: Sevilla Flamenca, September-October 1988, No. 57.  (Translated by Paco Sevilla)

 My sister—and I am not blinded by my passion for her—was an exceptional woman. Along with being a great dancer, she was an exceptional artist, far ahead of her time. The evolution of the dance is a chain of events—can there be any doubt of that—and my sister gave the dance of her era a great push that enabled it to develop as it has. And she was the first to bring to the stage pueblo-style artists like Pablito and his brother Juan, who was still a child, and La Jeroma... If my sister were alive now, I don't know what she would do...she would commit heresies!

It is somewhat of a cliché to say that someone is "born to dance," but the truth is that my sister was born with that gift, with that profession, with that destiny. There was no known precedent in our family, but she was definitely born to dance!

My father was named Félix López and my mother, Dominica Julver. My father was from Madrid and worked in the fabric business. He often made business trips to Buenos Aires, from which came our connection with Argentina. He met my mother here in Madrid, married her, and their first daughter, Angeles, was born here. Later they returned to Buenos Aires to live and establish the fabric business. There, in 1899, my sister Encarna was born—along with another sister, Anita, and a brother, Francisco. At the time there was an epidemic, of scarlet fever I believe, and Anita, at only two or three years of age, and Francisco, at six or seven, both died within weeks of each other. That caused such grief for my parents that they decided to abandon Argentina. The fabric business, which had been quite profitable, was left with my father's brother who also lived there and, according to the only photograph I have of him, looked a lot like my father. Neither pressure from the family nor the success of the business could convince my father to stay there even one day more, so they returned to Madrid and set themselves up here.

So my sister Encarnación came here at eight or nine years of age—hence the name Argentinita—and, in photos taken at that time, you could see in her face that she would be something in her life. She had what you call with so much gracia, "hechuras"[the makings]. Well, with those "hechuras," and being just a little girl, my father took her with him to the cafés cantantes.  My parents were not artists, although my father was a great aficionado. In those days the fashion was the genero chico [light music], composers such as Chueca and Chapí, and musical works like "La Verbena de la Paloma" and "La Revoltosa," etc. That is what there was in the theaters. Besides that, there were the cafés cantantes where my father used to go. He was such a good aficionado that, after his work, he never went to bed without first going to the theater of some café cantante. And he used to take my sister Encarnación to the cafes, and many times she would join in the fin de fiesta [closing number]. Of course, I wasn't even born yet.

It was a crazy thing to do because the little girl was just that, a little girl, who after coming home from school had a little dinner and then went off with my father to have a glass of milk and watch dancing, singing, and guitar playing. The cafe was named Naranjeros, El Café de Naranjeros. I have searched for pictures of that cafe, but I have found nothing. I managed to find out where it was located, but have not found any picture to show me what it was like. El Café de Naranjeros was located in what they call the "Plaza de la Cebada," where the Teatro de La Latina is today...

 In any case, every night the little girl watched and listened to the artists, and at home the following day, with that gracia she had, she repeated everything she had seen and heard. My father, who owned a little guitar that I still possess, played a bit while Encarna sang and danced. My father's friends would say to him, "Félix, you can't just let this child stay here, you should take her to a school!"

At first he resisted, but finally gave in. One of the academies was that of Julia Castelao. That was a period when you had here the great teacher Otero, and the Pericets... Well, she went to that academy and then went to Barcelona, to the Liceo, because there was a teacher there, named Pauleta I believe, who was teaching the classical escuela bolera. She stayed there for several years.

I have photographs of her [Encarnación] at age twelve already competing with older artists such as Antonia Mercé "Argentina," Pastora [Imperio], Raquel [Meller]... At twelve! And still just a little girl, wearing little dresses stuffed with cotton (which my mother saved, and I have seen). Since she was still a child and very thin, while the others had hips and ample busts, she had to stuff her dresses to make herself look older...

She began her dancing dressed as a man. She had some little pants and danced like a man. From what they tell me, it was a brutal life, because she worked a great deal in the ferias of the small towns, where there were tiny theaters. My sister told me that there were times when they did up to fourteen shows a day, and she did two dances in each. A child! It was enough to destroy her. My father saw that it could not be, and so, to reduce the strain, my sister began to mix in some singing. It was true then, as it is now—and I speak in general terms—that you could almost say that singing pays better than dancing. And so it was that, for this and the other reason, she began to mix singing and dancing in her performances.

And then I came into the picture [1912]. My father was a great traveler. And my mother, as the saying goes, "la soga tras del cordero" [where the lamb goes, it's tie rope must follow]... I almost became a Catalonian, but just by chance I was born in San Sebastián [in the Basque province] where my father went because he liked the mild winter climate. Rafael Ortega used to say with much gracia when I became angry with my company or became very serious for some reason, "Pilar, don't put on your beret, please!"

So, by birth I am from San Sebastián, but I am really from Madrid, which is where I grew up. My father was not from Madrid, he was from Segovia, but he has some very special qualities, very gypsy. I look at photographs of him and say to myself, "My father had to be gypsy or Jewish." I think he must have been a Castillian gypsy. It is possible, because in our house, both Encarna and my father were very Andalusian, and me too. In our house we all adored flamenco—and without having roots there. It must have been in my father's blood!

All of my childhood and my youth was spent in theaters with my sister Encarnación. I grew up on the stage like the puppeteers, wandering here and there. But my sister, who saw the bigger picture, said, "This little girl is going to grow up like a savage!" And, so, when we were again situated in Madrid, I stayed with my mother, went to school, and attended the academy of music and dance. I also went to the academy of Julia Castalau... I studied with a sensational teacher, very tiny, but brilliant—almost all of the members of the National Orchestra have studied with her, or with her children. Her name was Amparo Gutiérrez. She lived in a very modest home, but began to play the piano each day at eight in the morning and didn't get up from it until twelve at night. I studied music with her for three years, piano for four, and won a prize in music. I don't know whether I could have been a great pianist, for I was studying dance at the same time and opted for dance rather than continue with a fifth year of piano.

So my life was study—school, music, and dance. And I don't even know how to sew on a button...because in those schools they taught housewife skills in the afternoons, when I was at the academy for music and dance. So my childhood was passed in study. My parents died when I was still a child, about twelve, so the period I am describing was when I was with Encarna and Angeles, the oldest and the one who maintained the house and was like our mother. When Angeles married, at a somewhat late age, I, although not aware of it at the time, couldn't forgive her at first because I felt like she was abandoning us. I even went some time without speaking to her. Later I came to understand that is how life is. But when one is a child one doesn't understand these things, and one's ego makes one think these things.

For her part, Encarna was at the peak of her fame, and since we didn't have the freedom you have today, she thought of putting me in a boarding school, in Switzerland or somewhere. But I had tantrum. For two or three weeks I was sick, because what I wanted was to dance. Finally, my sister put me with a señorita de compañia, a seamstress of ours who was very trustworthy. And that is how I began.

I began on my own, doing the best I could. Encarna came around once in a while to see how I was doing, but I began alone. For example, I worked in the Kursaal in Sevilla, on the Plaza de la Campana. Admission was the price of a drink, although there were the box seats for the señoritos. It was an audience of men, and I was a little panicked by them because I had heard stories about the Kursaal. Even though my agent tried to lift my spirits, I decided to go see it before committing myself. It was a kind of varieté [variety show], and in one performance a woman came out singing something risqué. And I saw that the audience didn't pay much attention, even though the artist was scantily dressed. The people just kept drinking their coffee, without paying much attention. But then a little girl came out, very humbly. Her name—I'll never forget it—was Angelina Dantés. She was very thin, very scrawny, quite ugly, and poorly dressed. And she played the violin! Imagine, classical things! And it was the opposite of the previous act, like night and day. There was complete silence, with a tremendous ovation at the end. The people seemed to have a sensitivity, and I saw that it had class, so I said to my agent, "Let's do it!"

And that's how I came to Sevilla the first time, which was, if not my first performance, certainly one of the first as an artist. At that time I sang a little and danced a little...I hadn't yet found my "place," as they say in bullfighting. I recall that one of the things I sang and danced were those Cuban rhythms that I liked so much, like the one called "La mujer de Antonio bailaba así." I really liked those rhythms, and even did a performance with Maestro Lecuona.

Well, time passed, until my sister created her ballet company, which was called "Compañía de Bailes Españoles," and I became a memberY My sister mounted "Las Calles de Cádiz," which was a tremendous success from the point of view of the directing. "Las Calles de Cádiz" and "Nochebuena en Jerez." Most of the artists were not professionals, just locals from Cádiz and Jerez. The professionals were my sister, Juana la Macarrona, Magdalena Seda "Malena," Rafael Ortega, and I. There was also El Niño Gloria, and a lot of people like El Titi, Ignacio Espeleta, who was a popular figure in Cádiz, El Lillo, banderillero for Joselito, a beautiful girl from Jerez named La Jeroma, and Manolita Mahora—who I believe married Sánchez Mejías' son many years later.

"Las Calles de Cádiz" was above all a success in its direction, because imagine how difficult it was to bring all those people together in those times, in 1933. Perhaps it wouldn't seem so significant today, but back then! There was a man selling shrimp who did a couple of desplantes. Ignacio Espeleta did some tangos de Cádiz that would drive you crazy, with a child of four or five dancing. It was almost grotesque, like something by Walt Disney, because Ignacio was well over six feet tall and very fat, while the child was a tiny shrimp and would only dance when Ignacio sang for him. It was amazing! As if an elephant was singing for an ant! It really was surrealistic. It seemed like Ignacio would crush the little boy, whose name was Juanito and the brother of another bailaor who came with us—although I don't remember much about him—Pablito de Cádiz [brother of Juanito Villar's mother].

I believe that "Las Calles de Cádis" was very important. There were no longer any cafés cantantes, the last ones having disappeared from Sevilla, Madrid, Málaga, and Barcelona. And she was able to organize this show, with those bailaoras. Today it wouldn't shock us to see five women dancing together in train dresses, but back then it certainly did. There was Malena, Macarrona, Argentinita, and I—four or five women, wearing batas de cola and dancing por alegrías, more than fifty years ago, and far ahead of the time.

Later, we went to Buenos Aires. Then came the war and we went to Casablanca, to Oran. When my sister saw that the war was going to be prolonged, we went to Paris. Later we went to New York, where artists of all types were flocking to escape the World War. Carmen Amaya was there—that was the first time I had seen her—Rosario and Antonio, my sister and I, with a young man who came with us, Antonio Triana from Sevilla. Antonio was, to me, a very common dancer; I realize that people liked him, but I didn't. Later we changed and José Greco came with us, and there was Manolo Vargas, a Mexican. And so it went, for six years. Unfortunately my sister died there, on September 24, 1945. She had been such a fortress and always so healthy, and appeared to be only in her thirties. But she experienced something bad and died there. I brought her back to Spain, buried her in the Cemetery of San Isidro in Madrid, and remained here. That took away my desire to dance and I didn't do anything for a long time...

My sister died with the frustration of not having fulfilled her dream of opening cafés cantantes in Sevilla, Madrid, and Paris, with artists rotating between them. She wasn't able to do it, but I talked of my sister's great dream in the flamenco circles of Madrid and a little while later Zambra appeared, then El Duende, and El Corral de la Morería. Like El Cid; she had won the battle after her death! She had so many ideas and so much vision in the arts.

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